My wife and I were one of the first buyers of the YS640 in 2010. We had owned a couple of gas grills that, of course, eventually rust out. My wife saw the YS640 at the Kansas State Fair and called me and said that I HAD to look at this smoker! At first, the smoker had many problems--inaccurate temps, huge swings in temps, etc. Don and Joe kept working on the problems and installing updates--never charging us for updates or service calls. Finally, in about March of 2011, they installed the update that really was the solution. Since then, the YS640 has been a consistent workhorse that does everything as advertised. Built like a tank. built to last. Don and his staff stuck by his product and by his customers. In this day and age, customer service is uncommon. By the way, I thought the YS480 would have been big enough, but my wife said, "our family isn't getting smaller,".....I'm very glad we got the 640 and the second shelf. I have needed it many times. Thanks Don!
Decided that moving these beasts was a little challenging so I bought a Backwoods Party 10 years ago and loved it. But basically have about worn it out. And as I got older I don’t enjoy getting up at 2 AM and then having to get up every couple of hours, after the 45 minutes of getting it ready at 2 AM, to check it and feed it. I also bought a smaller lightly used Open Range, The Good One. Used their recommended method the first time I cooked with it and hated the Q off of it so bad most of it was wasted, wife hated it too and the son ate most of it. It was extremely ash/strong smoke flavored!

The entire system was designed in order to make smoking fun and easy. Cleanup is easy, getting everything going is easy, and food turns out great every time. The main cooking area 292 in.², which means you can cook a lot at one time. Since it uses convection technology, the smoky hot air can circulate around the food in order to cook everything evenly.


Even seemingly perfect pellet grillers have trouble getting the cleanup part right even in light of how little ash is produced by pellets. You should search for pellet smokers and grills that efficiently keep the ash from building up on the heat deflector that’s located underneath the grates. The ash should remain on the ash cup and nowhere else. Meanwhile, major cleanup with soap and water is a hassle that requires an apron and gloves.
This is best pellet smoker for the money if you are a newbie but want to cook like a pro. It is super easy to use and allows you to set up the whole system and then walk away. It has an electronic autostart ignition, which means you don’t even have to start a fire. Just plug it in, do a little prep work, add some pellets, and it will not be long before you have some delicious food to enjoy with your family or serve to your friends.

How? I just sold my house and left the Traeger with it. Now in Mexico and thinking of buying a Green Mountain. I would like to get a little more smoke flavor than what I was able to with my Traeger (which I loved). So how can you use other hard wood to enhance the smoke flavor? Also comment on how to use the tube smoker in one of these pellet fed grills. With 1 1/2″ rib eye, I would smoke for 45 minutes then crank up the heat to about 350 for 13 minutes and it would provide a perfect rare steak every time.


You can make changes to your order anytime during the checkout process prior to submitting the order. Once you have submitted the order you cannot make any changes through the website. If you have submitted the order in error or need to make a change please contact customer support so we can assist you. Have your order invoice handy so we can more efficiently help you.
Pellets are made from different woods, each of which imparts a distinctive flavor to the meat. Hickory, oak, maple, alder, apple, cherry, hazelnut, peach, and mesquite are among the flavors available. For more about pellets, read my article, The Science of Wood. There is a pretty good forum for people who have pellet cookers at PelletSmoking.com and of course our Pitmaster Club has a lively discussion on them with many active users.
Decided that moving these beasts was a little challenging so I bought a Backwoods Party 10 years ago and loved it. But basically have about worn it out. And as I got older I don’t enjoy getting up at 2 AM and then having to get up every couple of hours, after the 45 minutes of getting it ready at 2 AM, to check it and feed it. I also bought a smaller lightly used Open Range, The Good One. Used their recommended method the first time I cooked with it and hated the Q off of it so bad most of it was wasted, wife hated it too and the son ate most of it. It was extremely ash/strong smoke flavored!

The grill is plated with beautiful stainless steel that gives the grill a refined and impressive look. The huge cooking area includes 570 square inches of surface area. That’s enough to hold 20 burgers or 4 rib racks! It also contains a second warming rack and bottom shelf that provides the grill stability and extra storage. This version comes with a sear box that can reach temperature of up to 900 degrees Fahrenheit, which caramelizes your food. There’s a cheaper version without a sear box that costs around $200 less if a sear box isn’t a necessity for you. Additionally, the legs are built with extreme thickness giving the grill a grounded base. The caster wheels add portability to the grill so you can find that perfect place in the backyard.
With a temperature probe for the meat inside the chamber, this allows you to keep an eye on the temperature of your meat without opening the grill. Nothing ruins a brisket or roast faster than the griller who constantly fiddles with the meat on the grill. Opening the chamber lets the heat out and that can quickly make for some tough meat. This handy feature takes the guesswork out of how ready your meal is, helping you get the best outcome.
Beef: For ground beef items such as patties and pies, the ideal temperature would be 250 F. If trying to smoke some steak, we’d suggest 225 F. For both these temperatures, the food should be allowed to cook for around 1 hour to 1 and a half, depending on your preferred doneness. Alternately, for steaks, you can reduce the temperature further, increasing the cooking time for more tender but less juicy results.
One other thing to know about the wonder of pellet grills is that they come with pellet hoppers, varying in capacity from brand to brand, that accommodates and use the pellets you put it accordingly and automatically as per the heat setting, eliminating the need to refill the hopper manually so frequently. So throw on some lamb ribs on to those hot grills, and go enjoy some cold beer while the pellet grill does the rest for you! 

 When you think of a pellet smoker, what comes to mind is the rich taste of BBQ, better manipulation and convenience. These are exactly what the best pellet smoker should give you. To find out the best, among the many out there, you should think of various features. A burner that can give you control, comfort, long service, and great flavor in food is something a top rated pellet smoker should have. Let’s take a look at all the factors you should consider when making your purchase.

When buying an item as important as a grill, it is evident that an individual should look for the best quality for what they desire as well as learn properly what are the best in the industry. With that in mind, pellet grills are even more unique than a regular grill because of the design and the way the grill functions. With that said, the quality of a pellet grill is the first criteria we took into consideration because there is a slew of different elements that have to ensure the grill is made of the best possible quality design. With that in mind, one important aspect of quality design that we took into consideration is how all of the functions are built. Meaning, we wanted to make sure that no area was designed and manufactured in a cheap way. Other than that, one method in which we figured out the best quality grills is how the grill cooked and how the items tasted. However, since we cannot buy every single grill and spend weeks cooking steaks and vegetables, as nice as that sounds, we relied a lot on individual reviews and what people had to say about that particular grill.

For example, many grills use and charge for collaborating with a software application on it. I, personally, think this is an absolutely silly feature to include on a pellet grill. Yes, it does start on and off from your phone and change temperatures while you are at Switzerland enjoying Swiss cheese on a lake, but really, is it even logical? I mean, pellet grills have already made the cooking experience as easy as a dream, the least you can do is set the temperature by the click of a button on the appliance yourself! You can’t possibly be that lazy!


I've had my ys640 for almost a year now. I absolutely love it! I debated for a long time before my purchase. I'm an old school charcoal guy at heart. I used to have a gas grill and a coal pit. I got tired of replacing gas grills every few years and having two grills is cumbersome. I considered an egg but the pellet grill is so convenient. I'm impressed by the build quality of the ys640. It's so heavy. It won't be rusting through any time soon. No regrets. My treager owning buddy is buying a yoder as soon as his treager quits because he has grill envy
Hello.. You recommended a couple weeks ago to go with a GMG grill and that is the one I’m going with. I’m just a little torn between the DB and JB. They are only $150 apart but I’m not sure if the bigger size is worth the money when I can spend that on a cover and some pellets. Do you think the bigger size is worth it for a back yard smoker with the occasional party? I know people say bigger is better but I went bigger with my previous barrel smoker and it was much harder to keep an even temp with the bigger size. I would have went smaller given the chance. Thanks for any input!
A smoking piece of juicy pork butt will just make your day. Not only does it smell good and taste good, the excitement of grilling and the anticipation of a good meal makes the experience even greater. But if you’re new to cooking and grilling, gathering the correct ingredients for a pork butt might be difficult. So, we’d rather simplify it for you with off the shelf products. If you’d rather make the rub yourself, check out our detailed guide.
Kevin: I have a gas smoker but would like a wood pellet smoker. I’m looking at Traeger Lil Tex (due to price) but I read about Blazn Grill Works, Grand Slam, made in USA, stainless steel grates and a control unit that is very good. Cost about $1195, can’t find dealers so called and talked with the owner. What I read on web site sounds good. He claims on his short video that his auger is the best and doesn’t put torque on the drive due to the design. Any thoughts on this unit? Any advice would be appreciated. Still looking at the Yoder YS640 as price is very similar.
But, along with some shelves we don’t need, a headboard that won’t fit our new bed, and a gigantic chest freezer I haven’t yet filled, the Egg has languished in the back corner of the garage since then. That’s because a brand new Traeger Timberline 850 was sitting here waiting for us when we arrived and it’s performed so well and become such an essential part of my cooking that now I can’t imagine using anything else. 

I think you get the picture. In any case, you can see how pellet smoking really does have its own culture to it. I really hope you’ve found value in this selection of Pellet Grill reviews. If so, please consider sharing it with your BBQ friends! And for sure comment below and let me know about your favorite pellet grills, pellet blends, and methods! 🙂

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While there's not a lot to dislike about pellet smokers, it really comes down to your cooking/grilling style.  Some Smoking Geeks prefer pellet smokers to traditional smokers (or even the Green Egg style smokers) testifying that flavor is superior to that of other styles of smokers within the price range – and it's hard to argue with them.   While Traeger is the pioneer, there are other brands that give it a run for its money.
Having the same problem as the rest of the group. Rec Tec, Yoder, Green Mountain, Pellet Pro, or MAK? All seem to be heavy gauge SS, Pellet Pro seems really good value, MAK and Green Mountain seem to have controllers with more features. Have a friend who bought Rec Tec 3 years ago, he cannot say enough about the good customer service and the grill. If you could only buy one (money not the issue among these 5), which one, and why?
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This is the most important aspect you should look into when buying a new pellet grill. You always hear people saying that a product will cost more money if it’s built with better quality materials and that is absolutely true when it comes to pellet grills. Let’s start with the basics – the most common material that is used when producing a pellet grill is steel. There are many different types of steel from high-grade stainless steel to lower grades that aren’t as sturdy. Cheap pellet grills will be constructed of a decent grade of steel when creating the outer appearance so that it’s sharp to look at. However, the inner parts of the grill are made out of lower-grade metals. Do you see the problem here? Even though the grill may look aesthetically pleasing from the outside, these nice looks won’t make up for thelow-quality materials that are used inside. This can quickly lead to the inner components of the grill deteriorating and in need of replacements. This ultimately results in you spending additional money to replace these parts once they are no longer functional.
The Smokepro comes with many of the extras that define the Camp Chef line of products, such as the easy-to-use ash removal system as well and an interior fan. This model comes with easy-to-use controls and an LED temperature readout so you can monitor internal temperature at all times, even if you're cooking at night. The unit also comes with a convenient meat probe for ensuring that perfect finish.

Hey Mike, thanks for touching base. It’s always a pleasure to connect with you, man! If you have the space, I’d go with the JB. You can always cook under your pellet smoker’s capacity, but you can never cook more than it will hold! As such, you can always find use for the extra room in the JB. It’s like the umbrella and the rain scenario – bring one and you’ll never need it. Go out without one, and it’ll pour on you! Holding temp and managing the cook is the same for each of these GMGs. You’ll have smooth going with both, I’m sure. If you are cooking in very cold temps, you might want to consider the thermal blanket GMG puts out. Helps a bit re: getting to / maintaining temp. Some folks use it all the time as they feel it keeps more smoke in the chamber. As you know, nearly all pellet smokers produce a bit less smoke than your barrel smoker will. Hope this helps, bro! Thanks for your comments!
The Green Mountain Grills Davy Crockett smoker lets you get more than what you paid for. At a surprisingly low price, you get to have tons of great features commonly found in other GMG products that are sure to elevate your BBQ experience. For its price, we were quite surprised to see that it satisfied most of the features on our review. We tested over fifty products, and even the expensive ones were no match for this product. In terms of value per dollar, this product deserves the top spot.
The Camp Chef SmokePro is probably the best pellet grill on this list by rating and by performance. It has a decently large area for cooking at 19.2 inches by 22 inches plus its smoking or warming rack is also 6 inches by 24 inches in size. This is one of the best pellet smoker for home use because of its combination of quality features that are never superfluous and works as advertised.

Though the Memphis Pro works great as a high heat, sear, and direct flame grill, I chose to do some IBP ribs and a couple all natural pork loins I picked up from the store. I won’t go into too much detail on the pork loin and rib prep here, suffice it to say that I was very impressed with the smoke output I got from this unit, which I filled with a full compliment of Cookshack Fruitwood Pellets.
Second, you’ll have to figure out what BBQ pellets you want to use. There are many different brands, blends, and mixes to choose from, and you’ll likely want to do some side by side testing to see what you like best on what meats. My very good friend and BBQ buddy Shane Draper really likes to make his own blends  – using different woods in different proportions depending on what he’s cooking.
To your question regarding Traeger, I’ve not reviewed their grills of yet. I do know that Traeger as a company is taking steps to up their game some, as quality/reliability of their pellet grills has diminished over the last few years. The new CEO – Jeremy Andrus – they hired comes from the Skull Candy company and brought that headphone company from annual sales from less than $1 million to nearly $300 million. I know also that a few big hitters in the BBQ world are being contacted by Traeger to bring the brand back to its former prominence. You can read more about that here from the site of one of the company’s that now has an ownership interest in Traeger: http://www.trilantic.com/News_Story.aspx?StoryType=1&ID=56.
Traeger invented the original wood-fired grill over 30 Traeger invented the original wood-fired grill over 30 years ago in Mt. Angel Oregon and continues to lead the industry as the worlds #1 selling wood-fired grill perfected by decades of mastering the craft of wood-fired cooking. Fueled by 100% pure hardwood pellets and controlled with a digital controller means ...  More + Product Details Close

Thanks Kevin for the reviews and content. Like many of the folks I too will be purchasing a pellet pooper. I have narrowed my choices to a MAK 2 star and a Memphis Elite. One of the earlier posters indicated on the Memphis that the effective direct grilling space was about 1 square foot. I am assuming that with the smaller footprint of the MAK that the direct “flame zone” is less than that. I’m just wondering how much less.
I haven’t posted here before, but have been reading and finding a lot of good information on this site. I am in the market for a pellet grill so have been researching some of them listed on this site. Out of Yoder, Green Mountain, Memphis and MAK I really like price, features and looks of the Yoder YS640. I was wondering if anyone has used Louisianna pellet grills? For example, the CS680? I don’t see it mentioned much on bbq blog sites so not sure if it is a good brand. Thanks for any advice.
Traeger makes this process very easy. All you have to do is add pellets, open the lid, turn the knob to smoke and that’s it. The hopper will automatically feed pellets over a hot rod and ignite the fire. You should have your smoker up and running at 230°F in less than 10 minutes. All you’ll have to do after the Traeger 34 Elite smoker starts up is add meat and make sure you don’t run out of pellets.
Editor's Note: If you're looking to upgrade your backyard cooking setup this summer, you're probably in need of a little advice. We're longtime admirers of the folks behind AmazingRibs.com, the site dedicated to unraveling the science of barbecue and grilling. Please welcome back Max Good, the only person in the world whose full-time job is testing, rating, and reviewing grills and smokers. The database he maintains includes over 500 grills and smokers, ranging in price from $30 to $50,000. When it comes to barbecue equipment, nobody knows it better.

I've been using a pellet grill for a LONG time (Traeger for ~15 years?), so I know an upgrade when I see it. I just picked up a YS640, and it's amazing. I love removing the diffuser, adding the Grill Grates, and doing so nice searing! My first cook was a batch of rid eyes, and they were both beautiful as well as delicious. My "guest list" of people wbo want to come over for food keeps growing... Nice problem to have. Good friends, good food, good times.
One comment I see a lot in various forums like PelletHeads.com is that you want as much efficiency as you can get. As with lump charcoal, this means burning as clean of a cook as you can with as little ash as possible. Different pellet mixes will produce differences in what you get in this area, and the cooker you’re using will dictate this to some degree as well.
First impression was this thing isn't built like a mass produced unit, it's more like something you would expect from a master fabricator. The assembly instructions were incredibly detailed, and the way it was packaged made it really easy. It takes a little time to get temp steady for low smoking, but once it's there it seems to be pretty steady. So far absolutely impressed with everything about this cooker, and made in the USA!!!
We have reviewed the best pellet smokers on the market today after doing our extensive comparative research. However, there were some hidden gems that could not make it to our top 10 product list because of one reason or another e.g. due to their high prices, unavailabilities in some regions, and other factors. Also, some just failed to get in our top 10 list only because it was a top 10 list and not a top 20 list. Regardless of the reasons, here are a few honorable mentions that failed to make it to this top 10 best pellet smoker review, but are still worthy in their own rights: 

Many merchants pay us a small referral fee when you click our links and purchase from them. On Amazon it works on everything from grills to diapers, they never tell us what you bought, and it has zero impact on the price you pay, but has a major impact on our ability to improve this site! And remember, we only recommend products we love. If you like AmazingRibs.com, please save this link and use it every time you go to Amazonhttps://tinyurl.com/amazingribs

Pick an item that is anything but difficult to clean and store. Stay away from massive units on the off chance that you don’t need your grill to stick around in the kitchen when not being used. You may likewise need to pick one that your space can suit. And afterward, search for a model that can be effortlessly cleaned and that accompanies a deplete framework and an oil/dribble plate/gatherer.
Be that as it may, if your concern mainly lies on something that can be carried on a truck to an open-air grilling party or to a friend’s place, it’s positively a decent proposal. Aside from portability, it also gives you a cooking adaptability as you can grill, prepare, smoke, grill and braises with no bothers. The grill highlights full-size functionalities in a convenient bundle, henceforth a decent decision for anybody searching for versatile decision.
Serve a crowd with our huge 12 qt. Camp Chef 'Big Griz' 16 Inch Classic Dutch oven. This is the perfect addition to any outdoors m...an's cast iron collection. The one-of-a-kind lid displays a Grizzly Bear and also has an indentation of a Bear paw. This great piece of cast-iron cookware comes pre-seasoned with Camp Chef's own Inch All Natural True-Seasoning Inch, making it ready to use right out of the box! This Dutch features three legs, a handled lid and bale. The raised lip around the lid is excellent for cooking with charcoal briquettes or wood.Total Weight = 30.5 lbs.Depth = 3 7/8 InchCapacity: 12 QT. ID = 15 3/4 OD = 16 3/8 Inch Grizzly Bear Design on Lid Model No: SDO16 UPC Code: 033246208886 read more
I'd like to start off by saying I loved the grill when it worked. I haven't had the experiences of a lot that I've read about on here. This rating is solely based on parts replacement. My unit went down the first of October. They had me replace the hot rod, controller, and the power cord. Alas they decide to send me an entire new hot box. Seems totally fair to me. They did a great job upfront in trying to fix it. Then comes the hot box. They were supposedly sending one out ASAP.
The Traeger Pellet grill can accommodate temperatures from 180 degrees to 375 degrees, and high. It has a state of the art digital temperature control system that not only monitors the temperature to keep it consistent and even, but also regulates the pellets the auger feeds to the fire according to that temperature. This is truly a grill worthy of a place in our pellet grill review.

I had hung my hat on the Yoder and had even contacted the factory and a couple of distributors in the DFW area. Then I did my usual, search craigslist and see if anyone is moving and selling their unit. Low and behold a Memphis Pro!!! Story was brand new, bought for a built in and now cannot use it now. Brand new but you may not have a warranty though. Price… wait for it! $1600!!! You got to be kidding! Scam?? Ok well I will contact him. Surprisingly he had it advertised for a few weeks and only had a few contacts but none serious. Ok, I will come look and if you can plug it in and show me the controller works I will take it. Called the factory and they were quite responsive. They said we probably won’t warranty the controller because we don’t know the history but it will depend on the failure. Everything else we will cover. So right before Thanksgiving headed to Dallas and it basically all looked brand new, plugged in and it did everything you could do without burning pellets.
When you are looking for a smoker, one of the features that you want is to be able to control the temperature. This means that you will be able to use both a high and low temperature for smoking everything from poultry to fish to beef to vegetables to cheese. This is exactly what you get with the Camp Chef. It has an LED digital temp control system that comes with a food probe made from stainless material.
If you live in an area where wood furnaces are used (not like down here in FL where a few heat strips will do the trick), you may also be familiar with pellet furnaces. In short, pellets compressed from sawdust and wood shavings fill a hopper and are then fed into a burn pot using an electric auger system. The auger, which is basically a long screw, delivers pellets to the burn pot based on the speed dictated by the unit’s thermostat. As the burn pot ignites, the pellets burn. Heat then carries through the home via convection (air driven) means, thus allowing air flow and a blend of warm and cool air to maintain steady, even burn temperatures. A heat exchanger separates the smoke fumes from the warm air, thereby warming the room without smoking everyone out.

So Kevin here is where you come in. Been wanting to make getting consistent Q on the table regularly and easily. Been looking at pellet poopers for about 5 years now and decided to take the plunge. Had already done enough looking a few years ago Traeger’s issues had scared me off. Several friends had them and raved but always mentioned problems. I decided from my work I don’t want to be buying someone’s, ‘we know the problems and are fixing them’ if you can find something solid for similar cost. Yoder and FEC were pretty much my finalists. So I was doing my final thoughts and found your article.

I've had my ys640 for almost a year now. I absolutely love it! I debated for a long time before my purchase. I'm an old school charcoal guy at heart. I used to have a gas grill and a coal pit. I got tired of replacing gas grills every few years and having two grills is cumbersome. I considered an egg but the pellet grill is so convenient. I'm impressed by the build quality of the ys640. It's so heavy. It won't be rusting through any time soon. No regrets. My treager owning buddy is buying a yoder as soon as his treager quits because he has grill envy


Ordered Renegade Pro, received it and missing 6 washers to assemble the legs. They are rattling around inside the unit making it unusable. The control knob also sheared off in shipping. Traeger has yet to come up with a solution to fix or replace the unit...disappointed in their customer service. They don't care about customers after they get their money.
You then simply select your desired temperature via the digital controls and relax, safe in the knowledge that the temperature will stay steady and there won't be any dreaded hot or cold spots. This consistence is achieved through the efficient temperature control system and automated auger. This ensures a deep smokey flavor is embedded in your meat every time.
Loved the idea of a "pellet smoker" - less stress, delicious meat. Bought mine at Costco 1 year ago and have used it many times with mixed results, not exactly stress less. Last time using it the pellet hopper caught on fire, turns out the auger chamber is packed full of pellets and won't move. Attempted to open chamber to clear and with this model it is extremely difficult (with unit sold thru Costco - newer ones look easier...) so I called customer service hotline. Called different 4 times and talked with a different live person each time and was promised a call back to schedule an in house repair. Never received one call back so I tried to email and again never received a return email. I have no choice but to return smoker to Costco.

It also has the standardized dial-in digital control with LED readout (not to the point that it has WiFi like the Green Mountain Grills Davy Crockett Pellet Grill, but still quite convenient). However, it’s rated low on this list because of poor quality control. Too many customers ended up with bad Pit Bosses that have inconsistent temperature control (going all the way to 615° Fahrenheit).


Is it customization? I called before I order my YS640 and told them I wanted my grill grates made out of expanded stainless steel, and a few other small things done to ""personalize"" my grill so it was just the way I wanted it. ""No problem. The added materials will cost extra, and shipment will a week so we can fabricate your grates."" Try getting that with a Chinese import!
I didn’t actually learn to cook—at all—until after college. So my parents, who I now see only once a year or so because they live in France, have never really gotten a chance to try my food. One of the first nights after they flew over to see our home, I cooked them perfect lobster tails on the grill. When a long-lost cousin showed up one day during their visit, I ran to the store, bought two chickens, threw them on the Traeger, and we had a feast. Everyone agreed that those chickens were the moistest and most evenly-cooked they’d ever had. 
With Davy Crockett’s Wi-Fi feature you will have more time to interact with your friends and family. Download the GMG’s app to your phone and you will be able to turn the cooker on and off, monitor and control internal meat temperature, and even receive system malfunction or low fuel warning. In addition, you can even add time and temperature instructions for your favorite recipes. For example, the grill can cook at 225°F until the internal meat temperature is 110°F. Then, the heat can be turned up to 500°F for browning until the temperature of the meat is 135°F. Lastly, the temperature can be dropped to 140°F to keep the meat warm.
A pellet smoker with a primary cooking area of 500 square inches should be sufficient for an average-sized family who wants to have the occasional cookout. If you’re cooking for yourself or a couple, tailgating, or camping, we recommend going for smaller units. It all depends on your needs, keep in mind that bigger doesn’t always mean better. You don’t want to be paying extra money for space you won’t use at all.
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